The best advice on this topic, is likely
to be too late, if you're here now. That is, to give these things
thought when you're first building the character, and if you feel you're
over your head, don't make them that way. However, poop happens, so
we'll tackle this from the vantage point that you're already locked in
with the stats and traits you have, and now you have to make them work
out for you and be believable and useful.
You might be playing someone who is a cop,
or a chef, or a politician, or a mechanic, or an artist. They could be
the opposite gender from you. They could be a foreign culture or race.
They could be a lot older or younger, or nicer or meaner than you. So
how do you play someone whose personality is so alien to your own?
[a] FIRST STEP: When you are in the process
of building the PC, or right now, if you already have it built and
running, identify and list any skills, interests, heritage, culture or
behaviours that you wrote in, that you feel you can't relate to, are bad
at personally, or know too little about them to portray them to others.
Pre-emptively take stock of these.
[b] IDENTIFY ROLE-MODELS: Find and study
some serious (as in not satirical or exaggerated) characters from books,
TV, movies, comics, etc. that represent, in your mind, the quality or
skill you're stuck on. **Ask your ST or other players if they believe
those characters are in fact similar to your PC.** You can learn a lot
about your ability to convey the message by whether others see the same
thing you are.
[c] IDENTIFY REAL LIFE EXAMPLES: Find and
talk to people who actually share the trait you are having trouble with.
Ask them what "it" is really like. Observe them. Ask them about
stereotypes; how accurate are they? (or aren't they?) If you don't know
any real life sources, ask other players, your ST, etc. They might.
[d] PURPOSE OF THE TRAIT: Get clarify on
what function having this trait serves. Ask yourself, "What is destroyed
if I took this out or changed it to something else?" Does it give the PC
a sense of heritage? History? Uniqueness? When you understand why the
trait must be what it is, you will be better able to express it as well,
because you know where you're going with it.
[e] GOOGLE (Or the Internet in general):
Google is your friend. Imperfect but easy and plentiful examples to
[f] PLAY YOUR STATS: When all else fails in
ROLE Play, this is one acceptable time to ROLL Play. Just give it your
best effort and then ask the ST for some form of roll to better reflect
what your abilities should show, not what you are able to show.
PLAYER NOTES AND COMMENTS FROM THE ACTUAL WORKSHOP (8/23-24/05):
Tonight is about
Role-playing things that your
character is better at than you are.
The best advice on this
topic, is likely to be too late, if you're here now.
That is, to give
these things thought when you're first building the character, and if
you feel you're over your head, don't make them that way.
However, "poop happens", so
we'll tackle this from the vantage point that you're already locked in
with the stats and traits you have, and now you have to make them work
out for you and be believable and useful.
You might be playing
someone who is a cop, or a chef, or a politician, or a mechanic, or an
artist. They could be the opposite gender from you. They could be a
foreign culture or race. They could be a lot older or younger, or nicer
or meaner than you. So how do you play someone
whose personality is so alien to your own?...
On [A] FIRST STEP, there
were no additional relevant comments.
On [B] IDENTIFYING ROLE
MODELS, there were no additional relevant comments.
On [C] IDENTIFYING REAL
Player1: Hard to find some one
that knows a lot more about say.. streetwise.. that they are willing to
talk about. Or subterfuge for that matter.
ST1: Well that may be one specific example where you may not find anyone
Player1: "So.. you're good at lying?" Answer.. "No."
ST1: Subterfuge was easy for me (laughs). I just imitate (player). Even
though I'm being a smart ass that actually was truthfully helpful
Player1: But aside from skills.. how do you play some one more
perceptive than you.
ST1: ok. Let's take that as an example.
Player1: I mean .. you either are.. or you aren't. and it's difficult to
notice the little details IRC without having to ask for them.
ST1: Are you concerned with acting perceptive (The posing) or BEING
perceptive as in your character should catch clues you are missing?
Player1: The second.
ST1: ok that's a little bit different than what I'm covering but I'll
explain the difference. What I'm talking about here, is how to role-play
someone like that, IC.
Player1: Think of Sherlock Holmes eyeing some one.. there's a LOT of
information there.. clues people don't even know are there.
ST1: not the game mechanic of catching clues OOC. BUT. (And the next
class is on Plot Hooks incidentally so you gave me a good segue) If your
character is a lot smarter or brighter than you are being OOC, sometimes
you can just do exactly what I've had you doing, which is to simply make
rolls for things you should know. For example, Your PC is reading a
strange occult scroll. Your PC is like, Linguistics 5 but you're barely
linguistics 2 on a good day. If you don't pick up on your own, that it's
written in Egyptian, then I might have you roll Int + Occult if they are
really high (assume in this example they would be, and be higher than
yours should be if your OOC Self were a PC). If the DICE say you should
know stuff and you made the roll, I would just tell you stuff you
Player1: Um.. there's NO way to pick up it's Egyptian OOC.
ST1: Sure there is. the fact that you think there isn't, shows how
narrow your vision is for where clues are. that is what is trapping you.
Plenty of ways to pick up on it, **IF** you had that knowledge OOC.
Player1: *blinks* How? Unless you see the scroll in question.
ST1: I'm telling you.
ST1: OBVIOUSLY, I'm going to describe it to you. Since, duh, this is a
written medium. If you, Joe Player, are kind of occult blind and
language blind IRL, but the PC is supposed to be some hot shit
archaeologist, and you're not catching on, the ST is going to start
dropping hints about the item. like, it's made in a certain style that
suggests a (blot) time period. Or the form of the writing suggests it is
(Egyptian) If you have the stats to where you SHOULD notice these
Player1: So it's really the ST's call how much Information to drop
depending on your stats?
ST1: sometimes. This is a highly subjective thing, you see. The method I
am giving you now wouldn't work with some other kinds of information.
see, you are asking about OOC System, Dice, gaming method. Not about RP.
this isnt a question about how to play someone smarter, its a game
mechanics question about how to get information you should be entitled
to, according to your stats, if your OOC brain isn't hitting it. those
are different issues than what I was getting at, but I'll answer it so
it will help you
Player4 raises her hand and waits patiently for her turn.
Player4: No, I can wait, dude. Just looking to be put on the docket for
ST1: ok. is it making any more sense yet? Or better yet why don't you
put an actual for real example on the table of a time you had to deal
Player1: Hmmm.. well A form fitting example is hard to come by. But lets
see.. Ok just for simplicities sake.. the Church. I'm still hazy on its
exact layout. What's near what, who sleeps where.. how far from the door
to the hallway, etc.
Player3: why not make the layout yourself? paintbrush
ST1: We've never mapped it out. And he can't, I designed it. I don't
understand how that's relevant to this topic however,.
Player1: It leaves me unsure of what I can and can not notice, or what I
can expect to be noticed and expect not to be noticed depending on
range, lighting etc.
ST1: That's more a case of your famous overanalyzing again.
Player3: [[ you ask ]]
ST1: What real relevance is it to the RP if you know the exact corner
Trent sleeps in? And what if he moves?
Player1: Don't know.. usually none. Sometimes lots.
ST1: Got to do better.
ST1: If you're going to ask this stuff we're going to go over with a
microscope, hon. Pick a specific example. This is more a broad "I'm
vague on the church so sometimes I don't do this and that" is way too
big. Let's come back to it, Player3 hang onto your question, I want to
get Player4's, she's been waiting
Player3: if your char is suppose to be perceptive and you have no clue
the set up for some place, how do you play that out?
ST1: you don't, that's an OOC issue. Hang on. Player4...
Player4: Oh -- mine is just in a different area.
ST1: you want me to deal with Player3's and then yours, then?
Player4: Sure, that's fine. I'm patient.:)
ST1: ok... Player3... as far as the Set up for a place, that is a game
mechanics issue also, not a role-playing issue. Most of the time I at
least have a web page for any regular venue we have. The Church was a
little harder, since i didn't really design it, WW did. If you're
standing right there IC and you SHOULD know what it looks like IC, but
OOC you don't, you do not RP that out. Its not relevant IC. Its
something to be dealt with only OOC. Do you guys understand the point
I'm making yet?
Player3: yes, loud and clear
Player1: I think so.
ST1: Ok if you have another question let me know, I'm going to move to
Player4's for right now. lay it on me
Player4: I think I have a decent grasp of conveying emotion, nuances,
feelings-- the sort of thing that gives us depth in the game. What do I
do when no one gets it, though? It's so blasť to come right out about
it, and it's frustrating to try and convey something with no one getting
ST1: Well... That sort of is subjective. You might check in with the ST
in private first and see if you are RP'ing the desired trait clearly.
Start there. If the answer is yes... It may be OOC other player lack of
Player4: Is there any way to fix that?
ST1: in which case, sadly, yeah sometimes you do have to just jump up
and down and point and go Look I'm being (whatever you're being)
Player4: Good advice.
ST1: Well do you recall an example of any time that it's happened to
you? That you were trying to convey a trait and nobody got it?
Player4: Sure. In Gehenna, when Matilda was in the alternate church and
needed to show a big life changing epiphany. It felt to me like I was
acting it as genuinely as could be, and any more would be unrealistic to
the character. So I guess my larger question is this: How do you convey
emotion or ideas, etc., without selling out? If your character is stoic,
and the general public doesn't recognize nuances, what then?
I'm just sometimes stuck.
ST1: Well shall I let you in on a little secret about that scene that
ST1: You weren't there ;p
Player3: errr, um yes, please do. and I'm also dead, what storyline am I
ST1: Hers, it ain't done ;p
Player4: yes ma'am.
ST1: You were portraying an Epiphany. but an Epiphany wasn't the key to
getting out. You were looking for feedback in the wrong place.
Player3: how? I play a grunting growling missing link?!?!
ST1: There were extremely specific things I wanted from each character.
Chad went through hell with this. I wanted Mattie to come to a very
specific conclusion. So that scene wasn't about your authenticity. So
maybe that will help you relax about not being understood, some
Player6: however i did get the opportunity to get Icey to play a mean
dominatrix *licks his lips*
ST1: I think he farted around in the other church on purpose just cuz I
hadn't opened Bound anytime recently ;p
Player4: Got it. Sometimes it's guesswork, then.
ST1: Well... It can be. Yeah. Kind of like in Real life. There's times
in real life where you mean it and people don't understand you
Player4: That's true. Excellent point. Thanks. :)
ST1: But see, role-playing is an art form. Like any art form - theater,
music, art, you have to hit the common denominator whether it's how you
normally OOC react or not. You need to be heard. and understood
Player4: What was my specific conclusion, by the way? You didn't have to
water it down for me, did you?
Player3: dude you're sick
ST1: You can ask me when Gehenna is over :) you know part of it, if you
think on it. and no I only lightened it for one person, they know who
they are, and why I did it, it's been discussed
On [D] KNOW THE PURPOSE
OF THE TRAIT, there
were no additional relevant comments.
sometimes helps, but not always, Depends on the trait. This is more for
stuff like... How do I play someone who's 200 years old from Hungary
when I'm 22 and live in Florida. WHY does the PC have to be 200 and not
40. WHY do they have to be born in Hungary. WHY are they good at Art?
What would it matter if they weren't? the answers don't have to be
fancy. its more to get your head on straight
Player4: Like that anorexia idea i was tossing around-- it makes no
sense to have a PC who suffers from that unless it will directly impact
her RP or her personality.
ST1: exactly. that's why I wasn't too thrilled with it. Cuz like you
said, what meaning does that really have?
Player4: and conversely, Mat's mom is dead, so that might give her a
little misdirection by way of maternal instinct or female nature, or
might make her sort of yearns for a mom figure or something.
ST1: now if that char were the daughter (this is commonly a girl's
disease) of a famous NPC and her illness would make drama, then its
Player4: Sweet. Lots of angles.
On [E] USING GOOGLE (or
Searching the Web in General) for Help:
next one to me is massively obvious but some people don't think of it.
Player3: don't make a char without it
Player4: I have a hard time with this one. I'm being honest.
ST1: how so?
Player3: actually yes I can
ST1: That's fine, Player4, let's talk about it
Player4: I use Google, but sometimes information is scarce. Like Farida,
my voodoo guru.
ST1: well that can vary depending on the search terms you use
Player3: voodoo's easy. if you can't find a topic, ask in the OOC
channel, I'm good at it, ST1 is, ST4 is
ST1: Sometimes if you pick something obscure, its harder but I would
recommend trying at least
Player4: It seems that the only stuff I can find is wikipedia, which is
cool, but vague as hell. ...and like, I wanted to have a character with
French accent, but I can't find a website that'll show me how to fake
ST1: You know what I would highly have recommended for Farida? Two
movies, must see. Angel Heart, and Serpent and the Rainbow. They can be
Player4: Yeah? I've never seen them. And I appreciate y'all saying
you'll help. I'll keep that in mind from now on.
ST1: Yeah if I had realized you didn't know that much about how to
portray Voodoo, I would have said something earlier. Absolutely use each
other as a resource, that is WHY I made the Yahoogroups
Player4: It's fun, but I'm just totally sunk with her, so now I dislike
her because I don't know how to play her well. Sucks.
ST1: well Player4... lets just see what joy there is left in Farida and
use it as a lesson for next time. Sometimes you make a PC that's just...
Broken. it happens. as far as faking an accent goes? honestly you have
been doing pretty well typing a Creole dialect, And that's what I would
have Googled to do that, which you still can for the remainder of
ST1: I will say this, and this is just my personal opinion on it, as a
polyglot. I think the RP is much more authentic when people at least
ATTEMPT to convey their linguistic habits. Even better, if you actually
speak the language
Player4: Yeah, that's the only part I like about her. lol.
ST1: I cant tell you how many times I have thrown players by actually
using the language IC
Player4: That, and that she's not pretty and more than a little awkward.
ST1: well let's back up for a minute Player4
Player3: ST3's nifty with Jay like that
ST1: when you first made her.... what did you want her to become? What
was your vision for her?
Player4: I wanted her to be a little spooky, sort of archaic in
practices, very superstitious.
Player1: Heh.. just watch the language use. From personal experience
it's best not to start with a character that has a penchant for
Player4: It's just that things are already so established with the garou,
it's so hard to break in.
ST1: that's not a linguistics issue though
Player1: or for using words like penchant. :P
ST1: I'm talking about... With ice for example. She has linguistics 5.
And I run her that way. And I made use of the fact I actually know most
of the languages she does. (Which I didn't actually plan out, believe it
or not, the RP she did dictated it). So I actually type in Japanese, in
Gaeilge, in Arabic, in French, in Latin, when I know how. It makes
things interesting to say the least. with Rae I type in Russian. And so
But back to Farida.... ok Player4. What does "Spooky" look like?
Because in my opinion, and I hope you might come to share it... I think
Farida can be rescued some to be more like you had hoped, at least
enough so that finishing playing her wont be such a chore but might be
Player4: I don't know what spooky looks like. I'm a dolt.
ST1:Well let's give it a shot.
Player3: go Player4
ST1: Spooky, at least to me, is someone who is very serious,
emotionally, for one. intense. Agree?
Player1: Shadowy.. Grey.. not dark.. dark's not spooky just scary. But
shadowy is good. staring at/through people is always a good one.
ST1: So someone who is hard to read, yes, Player1?
Player4: Okay, that's good. But how do you measure 'hard to read'?
ST1: You don't know what's on their mind easily.
Player1: Yes but with that added kick that you just.. don't "want" to
ST1: Ice is extremely easy to read. unless you're empathetically
retarded. Jay is the opposite.
Player3: bajang could read her...anyone can read ice
ST1: But he's not Spooky, he lacks a certain sinister wildness. So there
needs to be a slight undertone that what you dont know about them is
dangerous. or at least... uncomfy
Player4: That makes sense.
Player1: aye being abrupt is good..
ST1: Spooky also is interested in unusual and archaic and occult things.
Player4: ...but it's hard to reach that level when everyone else is also
engaged in 'dangerous' things too.
Player1: two people are talking and just interrupting with a "No"......
ST1: Not necessarily. Everyone else doesn't take away from you playing
it correctly. The idea is to be understood, not to compete
Player4: But how do you become something when everyone else is the same?
ST1: how does what they do even affect you? A: It
Player4: How can she be particularly interesting when everyone else is
ST1: you *ARE* what you are. Alone or in a room of a hundred people
Player1: Heck some people don't mind spooky.
ST1: Its not about being interesting. Its about being Spooky, in this
Player4: But I love interesting.
ST1: What interests people can vary wildly. But not the point, sugar
Player4: Yeah, I hear ya.
ST1: Interesting is more of an opinion. SPOOKY is pretty universal.
Player1: we all want to be intriguing.. but sometimes we just have to
ST1: You want to convey her correctly, FIRST.
Player4: Good point.
ST1: Then worry about impressing the 10 other spooky people. Or
conversely if you fit right in with em, then you're still correct, if
not very original ;p
Player4: Good call.
ST1: But in all seriousness. if you made her more... Serious... not so
"new and in awe of the world"... Think about this. people from non
American cultures that are thought of as very wise, how do they act? The
Native Americans. Asian religions or Martial artists. The Ancient Celts
Player4: How do you change something that is already rolling, though?
ST1: You just start, tonight. There is no reason anyone is going to
criticize you for some revelation of correct RP. you just do it.
Player4: But doesn't that sort of 180 mess up RP?
ST1: well.... even if it does, we just correct it.
Player1: Not really.
ST1: You should never be afraid to do the right thing. Player1's been
through this. If its 180'ing anything, its something that maybe NEEDED
180'ing. But if it makes her more fun to play, and more ACCURATE then do
Player1: It's just Giving people what they think you should have been
Player4: good point.
ST1: she was written to be more spooky than she is. Perhaps you can IC
blame it on the coming Events. they *ARE* very stressy. a lot of PC's
are acting odd
Player4: Yeah. She's just an intentional joke right now, though.
ST1: But you do not have to keep her there. I hereby give you ST
permission to start right now and make her more fun.
ST1: She may feel a little off but at least you wont dread being her so
much. Its ok to finish off playing her in excellence.
Player4: Well said. Does it take a long time?
ST1: Well... (sighs) That can depend.. Two comments to that. one.... I'm
not a good example, I'm a professional actor. However I have actually
been using Theater techniques to teach you guys. Stanislavsky (Method
acting) if you know what it is. And the second thing is... That depends
on how vastly different you are from the PC
Player4: Okay. Will it take ME a long time? :)
ST1: Do you know how to be spooky OOC?
Player1 is all about the Method RP.
ST1: I'm being serious, doll
Player4: Not at all.
ST1: Then it MIGHT take a while... Although.... If you are stuck, do
what we are doing tonight. Ask for help: You can go like "OK I have to
play a PC who is very spooky and I don't feel like I'm doing it right,
can people make suggestions" and they will
ST1: Or "I am playing someone from the French Quarter of New Orleans"
does anyone know about that
Player4: Good suggestions.
ST1: and like the movies I told you about, Go rent them, I think you
will feel a LOT better about playing her
Player4: I'm sorry I jeopardized all y'alls time with my questions.
ST1: no no no that's what this is FOR. you are showing an example of
this in action - real examples are the best ones
ST3: What kind of spooky do you want to do? There are, as in all things,
a lot of gradations and variants
ST1: She's talking about Farida. So spooky like Angel Heart, or Serpent
and the Rainbow
Player3: no biggie Player4, I've picked up a few things
ST1: Yes you have certainly done that, Player3
Player1: It's no problem Player4. that's what this is for.
Player4: I should head to bed, y'all. Thanks for your help again-- I'll
be on tomorrow, too.
On [F] WHEN ALL ELSE
FAILS, PLAY YOUR STATS AS WRITTEN (i.e.: DICE IT):
the last formal thing I had, afterwards we can just talk about examples.
I did that very thing with Ice at the Conclave. The letter I wrote back
to the Justicariate, well Ice has Diplomacy 5 but I wasn't feeling all
that correct. So I wrote up a letter but along with it I also made a
dice roll for it. So just in case OOC I wasn't feeling too silvery
tongued that the PC was entitled for the letter to be received as more
correct than I am
Player6: that's mostly how i play my magi too...cause...those guys are
more knowledgeable then i could ever dream to be. Especially the SoE and
their nifty toys. Anywho...you just roll for the astrophysics
ST3: The thing to remember is... Actors don't have to be able to really
do everything their characters are supposed to be able to
Player1: Ok then I have a very Key question that's been bugging me. How
much are we allowed to "Ask the ST's" before we just become a pain in
ST3: They just have to SOUND like they can.
ST1: That's subjective, Player1 ;p
Player3: usually everything I ask falls into the pain in the ass
ST1: First off I would ask you, Why are you trying to play a character
that's so incredibly not like you that the ST practically has to play
them for you?
Player1: Ah well.. then I counter.. "Why does the ST feel I'm playing a
character that is so Unlike me." and I'm not really referring to Vander.
As you said, it's subjective.
ST1: If you have to ask the ST how to do something almost every night,
that is a sign that you are playing someone you don't understand at all.
Player1:There needs to be an agreement between the ST the player, the
player and the other players, on who and what they are. This can take
ST1: an agreement of who and what they are in what sense?
Player3: or you're asking the st for permission, sounds like someone
who's afraid to play their char
ST1: That too. I do not mind questions.
Player1: *raises his eyebrows*
Player1: Very Astute .. yes. That, in fact, was one of those really big
flaws I was/am having with Vander. I became too frightened to play him
the way I thought he should be.
Player3: if someone's afraid to play their char, A. need a new char, B.
need to work on existing char, C. need to play somewhere else
ST1: Where it gets annoying is when: [a] Im getting the same questions
repeatedly and the player is not absorbing the answer, or [b] It's
something really obvious and shows me the player was just lazy about the
answer... or [c] If they want to play something they just cant grasp
(most often because they think it sounded cool)
Player6: Just do stuff, if its bad, Casey or Jon will go 'WOAH, KNOCK
THAT OFF YOU DUMB ASS. SCENE VOID!'
ST1: yeah... well Player6 I actually did that in Gehenna already once ;p
The problem you ran into with Vander, Player1, is not accurately
portraying the traits he actually has. hence the prior workshops You
wrote someone who is supposed to be a Hero kind of dude.
Player1: Indeed. I am mentioning the reason(s) behind that lack.
ST1: but he didn't act like one at all, and you would blame it on the
chaos of the events in the world... but so what? Every PC has
experienced the same chaos. So you were inaccurately conveying "Hero" to
the other people. that's what held that up. so in a broader sense...
asking occasional questions is fine. Asking Is this right, is that
right, every night... means you really just don't know how to role-play
Player3: he sounds like a false hero....a wannabe hero
ST1: well on paper, he isn't false. This was an OOC issue of not
portraying what was on the paper, which is what we are working on
ST1: the choices of actions came off false, and they were the kinds of
actions that would do that. This is why those actions are no longer
occurring. On paper he was kind of like a Jay Archetype. With some
changes. So this is about conveying that to others.
Player6: in practice he's a douche - no offense :P
ST1: Yes but he's not supposed to be ;p so we're working on that
Player1: Douche, stick up his ass, Poseur, shallow, I've heard 'em all.
No offence taken.
Player3: if he's scared...he needs to get a pair and just play the
char...relax and try to enjoy Vander
ST1: I think the issue here is Player1 has trouble with universalities.
What he thinks something looks like, sometimes doesn't read that way to
others. that's tough to correct but one thing you can do, as I've said
then and say now, is check in with people for second opinions. You and I
sat down with Vander and did just that, the whole "Name Five characters
who are like Vander and why" thing we did
Player3: but don't do it to much, then you're all needy and asking for
ST1: that was highly, deeply informative about how you perceive him in
your head and how he's coming off to everyone else
Player1: And appreciated. It's also a two way street though. As I learn
what to show, others learn what to look for.
ST1: True. Sometimes it really can be a case of someone RPing correctly
and other players being dense. That has happened. I got an
example of that one. Brett. Brett played a lot of Maori Characters. New
Player3: that was off, people telling him out to be Australian
ST1: Exactly where I'm going with this. A lot of people whined that he
was fucking up stuff, but he wasn't. He was being true to that culture.
its very violent and very bigoted. I wrote a four page email defending
what he did with news articles and examples. Brett was RPing correctly
and other players were just being stupid. Ok.... More questions about
how to play stuff you don't understand OOC?
Player1: Ok the biggest one.. and I ask this for the group not me. How
do you play some one with and Intelligence of 5 or in some cases 6 or
ST3: with dice.
Player1: *laughs* Well that was easy.
ST1: I can in all complete honesty say mine would be a 5. Based on my IQ
ST3: raw intellect is the hardest thing to bullshit.
ST1: Intelligence doesn't look one way. But yeah what ST3 said.
Intelligence is a thing that only matters, in matters of intellect. Like
how does a person with Int 6 walk into a room versus someone with Int 1?
Answer: Same way. On your feet.
Player1: Same here.. but smarts ain't that useful Especially High end
ST1: Ain't that useful for what?
ST1: What does being thoughtful look like? in an action. describe
Player6: stroking your beard whilst looking up at the ceiling. that's
Player1: Sorry.. Ain't that useful for personal interactions, or even
mundane chores. I've met some reaaally stupid Geniuses in my day.
ST1: ok.... that's not about intellect, Player1. do not confuse that
with common sense.
Player3: sounds like Einstein...big math brain, bad basic math
ST1: Knowing the physics of fire doesn't stop some geniuses from smoking
ST3: There is such a thing as the "educated idiot" syndrome. aka, the
character with 18 int and 3 wisdom
ST1: It also doesn't mean someone isn't smart in some other manner.
intellect, IQ, is education and book smarts and intellect, and NOTHING
ELSE. its not wisdom, its not instincts, its not empathy
ST3: It's raw CPU capacity
Player1: Ok cool.. so we're all on the same page with that one. Good to
Player6: being really smart doesn't mean you know HOW to do everything.
means you might grasp the concept quicker then most when shown though
ST3: which the biggest, fastest CPU in the world isn't worth beans
without good programming... by the same token, a person with Marilyn vos
Savant's IQ and no education... is a really adaptable savage, but they
won't be able to program a computer or perform heart surgery
Player3: just because you can guess the story plot line doesn't mean you
actually grab all the plot hooks. it's sooooo true and you know it
Player1: So to sum up the highlights of tonight. Research.. ask
questions, ask more questions, and if that doesn't work, don't play that
ST1: Player3 turned around and just blurted out the hook for the biggest
plot we'd ever written. By accident. everyone around her didn't get it.
9 of them died. the highlight of tonight: Research. Use examples. Ask
questions and opinions. If it's still not working, you may want to drop
Player1: That's awesome. well the blurring out.. the dying.. not so
ST3: Well... Darwin's not always a nice guy
ST1: that was one of your most memorable moments
ST3: But if you stand there and stare down the oncoming bus... <shrugs>
you weren't the fittest.
ON HANDLING UNNATURAL
Player1: Ok one side line question.
ST1: Sure, shoot
Player1: Something mentioned in the
logs. If a Character walks in with an App 7 or something else
ungodly.. how universal is the reaction?
ST1: At app 7 the book clearly says there will
Player3: drool, pop wood, cat calls,
cartoon wolf reaction
ST1: It gives you two extremes. What
Player3 said is one of them
Player1: Right.. or jealousy.
ST1: the other, is livid jealousy and
loss of control. but at app 7 you are supernaturally beholden not to
ignore it. that is beauty beyond human understanding
Player1: But for how long? I mean the
first time.. sure... the second time.. yeah.. the third.. maybe..
but after a while do you get used to it?
ST1: no. You never get acclimated to it
ST1: What ugh. That is the legitimate
reaction to such a thing
ST3: We are talking, physical perfection beyond mortal ken.
ST1: would you ever get used to seeing God?
ST3: Anything that lovely is clearly not of this world.
ST1: only maybe a tiny bit.
Player1: I'm not disagreeing.. I'm just
seeing the Ug factor.
ST1: I'm challenging you that it isn't
Ug. you're making it bad and wrong, and I don't get why. its
appropriate to the creature you are witnessing
Player1: Which is.. say a bank robber
is in the middle of a get away.. running from the cops.. bullets
flying.. run's into Mrs. Perfect App 7.. and .. stops and drools.
ST1: Yes. They bloody well would. that
is completely proper to do when faced with something that his brain
cant even totally process the beauty of
Player1: Yeah.. so UG.. that's highly
ST1: Uh... dude?
ST3: It's appropriate.
ST1: the point of stats is not to be
convenient to your highness
Player1: I'm not saying it's Wrong!
ST1: it is to convey, what they are
there to convey
ST3: role-play isn't about what's convenient, or what's easy
to deal with
Player6: a WP point/roll would be necessary to
pull yourself away from app 7 persons. it IS possible...yet VERY
difficult. again, see dice
ST3: It's what's accurate.
ST1: well nobody WANTS to be Ugh and
Player1: gah.. a bus runs me over.. I
ST1: those are in fact in stone,
Player1: yeas I'll go splat.. but I
think Ug is an appropriate reaction.
ST1: its not a trait anyone desires
ST3: Which is why most people with apps that high conceal it
ST1: well that's "Planet trey" stuff. I cant
speak to it. Its NOT Ug. You are inventing that.
ST3: crowds of sycophants following you, pied-piper like down
the street, or alternately members of the appropriate gender
attempting to rape you on a daily basis... Yeah. It gets to be
ST1: Its more bloody inconvenient for the
character who has it, honey
ST3: That's the drawback of having a godly trait.
ST1: Ice was not physically capable of going
out in public. ANYWHERE. for any reason. She would cause commotion
just trying to get a coffee.
ST3: look at the poor guy with Str 5 who has to get all his
suits custom-tailored cuz even the Big and Tall stores don't have a
jacket in 62 long
ST1: when your PC lives like that for years...
if there's any Ug to anything, its with the PC who has that App.
Player1: So. just to dig in a little
more.. person with App 7 goes out into the street and sees the mob
coming their direction to worship them.
ST1: ok... (waits for the rest)
Player1: Are they allowed to say.. "ug"
ST1: it would be kind of stupid
Player3: I disagree
ST1: Does God say Ug when people fall
down and worship him? it just *IS*. You're thinking of it with a
ST3: "<sigh> here we go again..." more like.
ST1: disagree with what?
Player6: Don't forget, app 7 can also
be the most terrifying and scary thing you have ever seen yet is
100% attractive.. that's the scary thing
ST1: precisely. App 7 can frighten
Player3: it's like being a movie star,
they can't go out to get coffee without a problem
ST1: well no, Player3 its far far more
than a movie star. A movie star is App 5. They're pretty but they're
Player6: got a good dose of that from
the Tzimisce clan book
ST1: We're talking something so fucking
weird that even though its shiny, people might get scared and hurt
Player3: up the appearance, up the
ST1: Yes. That much is consistent
Player6: People tend to destroy what
they do not understand. Thus an app7 person has no choice but to
ST1: there is no "Ug", it's just the
correct reaction. No need to put a judgment call on it, and let's
face it, Ugh is one.
Player3: why can't ugh be another form
ST1: because it's not?
ST3: I'm taking the ug'ing here to be OOC bitching.
ST1: that's like asking why cant Yes be
another form of no, its recognized as a negative.
Player1: I'm not sure what Webster
says.. but in my experience "ugh" = well.. "Ugh" "this is going to
be rough" "this is not going to be fun" "This.. this is going to
Player3: that sounds like a sigh
Player1: Very much so.
ST3: Which OOC, you picked the stats so you have absolutely
no right to be bitching over any trouble that picking those stats
buy you. IC, you'd be so used to that sort of thing that there's no
point bitching over it.
ST1: And ALL of those are negative, dude. Not
one of those is a thing someone wishes to do by choice, embraces.
you just succeeded in reiterating my point
Player3: ahhh, very wise, thank you
ST1: and yes what ST3 said as well. Any
sighing over it can be IC cuz OOC you bought the damned APP. I don't
bitch about people reacting to Ice. I bitch when they don't react.
cuz it's shoddy RP
Player3: the lateness is making me
sleepy...is class over?
Player7: What about people that have
been around said individual for long enough?
Player3: again, would you get use to
seeing god? but what if you like grew up with god? or better yet,
you were god's cousin?
ST1: Well that wouldn't apply to God
but it might to lesser Supernaturals. a vampire or a Fae. And no,
Player7, we covered that. Appearance above 5 is NOT a stat you
become acclimated to. you react the 100th time as the 5th. You may
not be as surprised but you will still feel extreme about it, one
way or the other. Its no longer just an aesthetic at that point, its
a supernatural effect
Player1: Well that covers that.
ON CORRECT USE OF LORES
(WHEN YOU SHOULD & SHOULDN'T KNOW THINGS):
Player7: This won't be as big of a deal in 2.0
though... App is no longer a trait, the trait that app is part of
more so encompasses the sheer presence of the person in question...
(If we even want to get into that)
ST1: I think it was more just about how
to react correctly to it
ST3: So don't bother making a big billy-badass full moon
Blood Talon right out the gate. He'll get to sit and scratch himself
Player1: Word to the wise.. always be ready to
either throw down, or run like hell. I personally love having bad
ass characters that go out of their way to avoid combat.
Player7: I was thinking a Elodoth
Shadow Lord out the gate... ;P
ST1: You weren't thinking, if you were
thinking that ;p
Player7: Storm Lord...
ST3: Why don't you worry about your mortal character that you
will be starting play with.
ST1: Is your mortal finished? cuz this wont
even be an issue for several months
Player7: Except for actually writing
down the back story, yes
ST3: Not the werewolf character that is, at the minimum, a
year in the future
Player1: Ok so common sense is an easy one..
No science dots you still don't mix acids and bases.. but what about
lores? What does the common Vamp on the street know about.. say
ST1: In 1.0 or 2.0?
ST3: Well, in 1.0 for comparison's sake...
ST1: the common vamp on the street knows not a
fucking thing, unless he bought the lore. It does not matter that
the player has watched movies and crap, the vamp may not have. half
that stuff may not even be true (please note lores ALWAYS mean the
Player7: And even then you had better
have a good reason for the lore... Garou don't go telling vampires
about their society
ST1: Exactly, and vice versa.
ST3: At MOST you know, they exist, and they don't like you,
and they can probably kick your ass.
ST1: Ice lived with them and I still do not
allow her to know some basic things
ST3: anything beyond that requires a lore dot
ST1: because they simply never occurred in
front of her, and she's never set foot in a caern in her life
Player1: So Vice Versa.. the common
Garou knows nothing about Vampires.
ST1: Yeah the Garou wouldn't know vamps
cant just die by touching the bible.
Player7: Darren knows very limited
knowledge about some Camarilla clans and the Tzimisce, as Ice did
teach him... But even when that comes into RP I ask Ice in PM first
ST1: Right. But you put in the IC RP
time of Darren asking ice things, and so he can have those, he
ST3: The common garou knows, they reek of Wyrmtaint, they're
flammable, and they live forever unless something kills em. If that
Player1: Too bad they Can die by Wolf claws..
Garou tend to favor those over bibles.
ST3: Beyond that, pony up for Lore dots
ST1: a little Fort goes a long way
Player1: Not far enough. I've seen
player get Str scores in the teen's.
ST3: Not long enough a ways when the wolfy is rolling 8 dice
for damage and you're rolling 3 dice to soak...
Player7: Depending on how combat tweaked the
Garou you are fighting is
ST1: your average vampire didn't
survive Garou by fighting, he survived by other means
ST1: Dominating him to go to sleep ;pppp
Player1: Vamp's best bet.. Pump the
CRAP out of Dex and Run like a mother*&%%er
ST1: we can say fucker here
Player7: cheater... :P
ST1: I didn't cheat, Ice has ST 2 ;p
ST3: <Dom> Sit. Stay. Nice puppy.
Player7: Unless you put the Garou in frenzy, I
think that makes dominate a little useless
ST1: Actually not at high levels,
There's a Dom 6 or 7 for undoing a frenzy and it works on Puppies
ST1: but dude. how many kindred HAVE
that - 2-3 max.
ST3: Presence still works. And a creature in frenzy has their
tactical options pretty limited
Player7: Ice! :P
ST1: in the whole game
Player1: Oh well I'll just pony up for
that with my 9th gen character.
ST1: Ice, Alex, Jay. that's it
ST3: it's charge at it and rip it apart, or run away from it
Player1: NPC's the lot of em.
ST1: Well of course, such a thing
BELONGS with NPCs
ST3: And if the thing you're charging has five pounds of
brass hanging between their legs and silver in their shotgun... your
frenzied wolf is a rug.
Player1: So rule of thumb.. Celerity is your
Player7: Unless you invested the actual
time and rp to get to that level
ST1: well that would still make it more
or less an NPC, cuz that's years. remember Ice Alex and Jay are 8
year old PCs, x 200 exp a year average... that's 1600 experience at
the modest end. you can buy a metric assload of dots for that
ST3: I've used about half that for Jay and Cat.
ST1: Yeah I maxed Ice out in everything she's
earned in Rp and its only 900. I just had no reason to spend more.
She didn't do anything. I mean she's played but she didn't learn
more than that buys.
Player7: BTW, I have been reading parts
of the 2.0 books everyday (spare time, etc), so I believe I can help
with introducing people to the new systems, specifically the new
ST1: When the time comes that will be
good, Player7, and you can hurry that along by coaching people on
the mortal system. when enough players have mastered it so we're not
dragged down nose in books, we can bring in the supers
ON COMBAT WHORING, AND
THAT IT'S NOT NEARLY AS COOL AS IT SOUNDS:
Player7: ... Chill the werewolf fixation
ST1: seriously Player7, you're like...
Player7: It's been my reading material
for the last few weeks
We're going to play World of Darkness: Mortals for a good long while
in the meantime
ST1: I'll spring for Penthouse if you STFU
about the dogs ;p
Player7: I think it may be the hardest
to integrate though, it does have a focus on combat, specifically
that the Uratha need to hunt in order to hold up their version of
morality... So I'll shut up now about them :P
ST1: well I'm not saying there's no
room for combat, It would just be nice if you talked about SOMETHING
ELSE once in a while ;p anyway...
Player7: Hey, I'm a combat whore :P
ST1: Player1, is there anything else
you want to ask, even if its about a different topic, Since we're
ST3: You have to obtain your own food and I believe if you
read closely, that can be rationalized in many ways that don't make
it a five hour combat fest daily.
ST1: and there wont be combat whoring in 2.0.
That's one reason I'm looking forward to hitting the giant reset
button. that ain't just about the Garou either - some of the kindred
were getting on my nerves
Player7: Combat should be a lot more
faster in 2.0, so with reducing it's amount in the chronicle coupled
with it not being so involving, you shouldn't get mad about it much
ST1: Well what annoys me is people who
have characters who don't do anything else but combat. Most warriors
are more complex than that. Otherwise you might as well play XBox
(this was part of last night's workshop)
ST1: Also Combat is mostly a Dice
ST3: Player7: A few questions about Darren. What's his
favorite song? Favorite color? Last book he read? boxers or briefs?
Cans or bottles?
ST1: its not really Role-play, its just a
necessary consequence of certain scenes. You know, like telling the
Prince to fuck off
ST3: You don't have to answer me, but knowing the answers for
yourself is the difference between a character and a set of combat
ST1: Kill the Wabbit, Blood red, the AK 47
field stripping guide, boxers, and drinks from the keg
Player7: Favorite song is something I
might actually need to discuss with you ooc, Color: Red Last book:
Thus Spoke Zarathustra (gave up halfway), Boxers, Either or, he is a
survivalist and goes for what he can get at a good price
ST1: Or furclad ;p